AI in Healthcare: Interview with Steve Wiideman

welcome back to another episode of Christian Natural Health today I'm excited to have Steve Weidman with us Steve is the CEO of Weidman consulting

company specializing in SEO strategy Steve likes to organize search into specific disciplines broken down by

business model for natural search Steve believes in three fundamental requirements relevancy visibility and

user behavior for local search data landing page citation and reputation are keys to success while serving as an

adjunct professor at UCSD and csuf Steve is also building the Academy of search

while volunteering time to help improve transparency in Industry standards as an agency trainer at the Forefront of SEO

Steve has a front row seat to how AI is changing the landscape of various Industries welcome Steve thanks so much

for joining us thanks for having me on Lauren excited to talk about uh search and Ai and all this cool technology

that's uh that's evolving every day yeah absolutely so I know very little about

AI I'm specifically interested in hearing more about how AI is going to change Healthcare so tell us a little

bit about kind of AI in general first like how has it changed in the last I think nine months is when it sort of

went from futuristic to suddenly it's everywhere so the world has changed yes

it's almost like the like the internet just got invented right remember that back in the 90s it was it was this huge

exciting and it had been around obviously longer than that but the adoption of it when it exploded and everybody started using the internet

before the bubble burst in 2000 it was it was something new that allowing

consumers to be able to to now plug into their computers and get access to

everything to music to to downloading documents to finding information you

know without having to go to a public library it was a it was a whole Evolution and what was what was changing

in the technology world and AI is is very similar in in that same sort of

perspective in that now instead of just searching for the things that we're trying to find and and discovering

different options we're getting answers from machines that have been fed information and learned from that

information and now can can basically articulate it in ways that we can understand and so it's it's almost like

being able to talk to the computer and having the computer talk back to you as opposed to punching in keywords into a

search engine and getting those results so it's it's um it's a whole other Paradigm and Beyond the point of just

getting information AI Now can do other things as well which includes things as simple as writing a resume for you you

know again just by putting in some input or or creating some prompts right this or how we're we're connecting with it

we're creating prompts the new job by the way if you're out there looking for new Industries and Fields to get into is

prompt Engineers I've heard some of them get paid as much as 300 000 a year to be prompt engineers and that is writing the

right questions to ask the computers to get them to do things and produce things that otherwise would take sometimes

weeks months years to create including things like coding and

um and formulas and answers to questions which I suppose is the Catalyst to your

most interested topic is Healthcare right how can we find solutions to um to

problems that our scientists haven't figured out yet well if we can feed these computers the right amount of

input and data and research there's a possibility that some of this AI could

punch out some um some starting points of what might be the next way to find cures for things

that our scientists haven't been able to figure out yet we've got all this input and all these data points but we don't

necessarily have the brain power machine power you know that that these computers will especially as they continue to

evolve over the next few years so really really interesting technology for sure so I have so many questions based on

what you just said so um as far as like the the input that you're describing this almost sounds like I

mean there is kind of an art to searching like Google terms like knowing what to say in order to get the right response so that's what you're talking

about kind of except you're feeding it to the AI giving it the right like phraseology so that it knows what to go

out and search is that what you mean sort of so so if you think about Google as a as a search engine right Google has

a what they call a web crawl or a little bot or a spider is another type of term for it and what it's doing is it's crawling through the internet and it's

finding content to put in its index sometimes it'll find a page and it'll say well this page isn't necessarily

safe for visitors because it doesn't have a secure certificate or um you know the information I found on

this page I've already found somewhere else so it's kind of duplicate of something else so it kind of crawls and decides what it's going to put in its

Index right crawls indexes and then depending on how users interact with that content when they display it in

their search results they'll decide where they want to rank it over time in in the results based on their you know

their searches Behavior but it's really just a database of URLs that it finds on the internet where AI on the other hand

it's it's almost like a an information database more than or less than a list

of websites that contain possible information so it takes all the information that it knows from what you

feed it and that's that's where the controversy comes in is who's feeding these these large language models all

this information is it Google and how much is Google giving to to their system called Bard is it chat GPT and the

developers who created it that can decide what goes into you know the um you know the amount of information

that that will be displayed or or um or used by consumers so that's where

kind of that controversy comes from it doesn't go out to the internet and explore and create and and learn from it

instead it's fed information specifically by developers and yeah some of it some of it does Source from the

web I think um chat GPT went up to 2021 when they you know allowed it access to

articles and things on the internet but what it's doing though is it's in real time these large language models in real

time when you punch in a question are are writing an answer in in real time

based on what it has in its knowledge base whereas when you go to Google and you perform a search for I don't know an

iPad case or something it's going to access the database that contains a list of websites that might be helpful or a

list of product listings or list of ads or all three to display those listings to give you some options so the

difference I think is is people who are depending on on kind of where they are when they're searching and what their

intent is they're either looking for answers which is where they'll go to chat and say I need an answer to

something or they're looking for options where they might bypass that that whole generative AI section within the search

results and go straight to the web results to look for options so I think that's that's kind of the differentiator

is if hey I need an answer to something um we as as consumers are going to get

smarter about how we create prompts in fact we're getting smarter at how we

create tools the that enable us that enable tools to create prompts for us so

that we can ask a question and the the tool will come back with a follow-up question such as are you looking for

this are you more interested in that as opposed to us just punching in a question and expecting the right answer

to come up so there's all these browser plugins there's all sorts of third-party tools that are coming up I have one on

my phone I think it's called Genie it's called Genie that uses chat GPT and and gives you a little bit more interaction

with AI as opposed to just you figuring out the right question to ask so um

that's it's getting really really fun and interesting but it's it's um

it's a new paradigm for how we or how we are going to transact find information

and build things we no longer as consumers have to write our own resumes right we can have it generated

um you know by something that that can write it for us and be very articulate we no longer have to spend an hour

researching a search result to extract the the terms and the entities that are important to our content we can ask the

AI to do that um you know we no longer have to to write and validate code for you know for

websites for programming software we can go out to these tools now and say write

me a piece of code that does X right meet the HTML I'll need for a web page

on this topic it can do all of that work for us saving us hours and hours and hours of time so really amazing

um evolution of um of what we can do now as as humans that we couldn't do before February of

this year so really really exciting well and I thought that chat GPT the first iteration that was available to

Consumers was November right and then they had an update that came out in February is that correct so right so the the chat GPT 4 is the latest and

greatest and this is the one that has all the the bells and whistles of what we'd hoped for it I heard something about a five coming too but then I've

I've heard kind of both sides so who knows who knows if it's going to happen or not but um but the adoption of it the blow up

really happened in February so we and we can see that too we can see that and even in some of our our search data it's

it's really interesting when you go into some of these free tools that search engines give you like Google search console and and Bing webmaster tools

um it's really interesting to see that the ways that that questions and queries are evolving you're seeing longer you

know questions now because people are starting to use chat GPT more and they'll go back to Google unless the

same kind of long questions and if you're if you're opted in to the new Google Labs which is free to do by the

way you can actually see the new generate generative AI right within Google search results you just have to

go to Google Labs sign up for it and choose generative Ai and then when you perform a search right after you perform

a search it's going to give you that chat result and below it will still be the web results really interesting and I

don't know if it's going to stay or not but we'll see so to clarify what you said a little bit ago about where the

controversy comes in it sounds like there's almost correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the AI is

almost like a middleman where he's synthesizing he is synthesizing all of the information as you're doing the

research and it's saying let's take this let's not take that this is a a valid source and therefore we're going to say

all of these people agree therefore this is ultimately what we know as opposed to the search result where you can get

conflicting opinions and then you make up your own mind is that is that kind of sort of it yeah in a way I mean there's still there's still safe filters

available in search engines you've seen those right the we put them on for our kids and make sure they don't find

information then or or content that's in appropriate for their age so there's there's still filters I think with the

with the AI the concern is that the filters are around what's what the

developers want to be available to Consumers so if you try to type in

something like how to how to build a bomb or how to how to create arsenic or

something right there they've got these filters in place to say hey I'm sorry that's inappropriate or you know it's

it's not something that I'm able to help you with you know so so prompt Engineers are out there trying to figure out ways

around it and the first the first thing we all did as search Engineers was we asked these these chat engines we said

how do you rank content how do you decide what's going to be displayed in your results because we want to know is

there anything different we need to do with these new upgraded search engines

that do more than just you know provide results that can help our clients who all want to appear when somebody's

performing a search for you know their product or service so yeah yeah it's it's it's fed by it's created by

Engineers that's that um that decide what goes in right and

and how it can be used and that's kind of where that controversy comes from because you know in our our economy we

don't like filters we like to be able to see and do and and have access to everything and that's that's where

Facebook's getting a lot of flack with how they're experimenting with AI and they want to make it just completely open you know you hear all these

different stories about how you know they don't want to have filters they want you to be able to to use it however you want to and that's where the danger

comes in and all that you know the the thought leaders in the world of AI are like whoa you're you're talking Matrix

stuff now you're you're giving too much control to artificial intelligence and we don't know if we can stop that

control once it gets out and I think that's that's their biggest concern so now we've got a battle between you know

the folks who are creating amazing things and the folks whose jobs are to to

balance what's what is acceptable uh for society and some people are like well

who are you to tell us right what's acceptable for society yeah that makes sense so coming back to what you said

before about like kind of future of Health Care so you took it in a direction that I thought was a little different I was thinking more like the

consumer level but the idea of asking it solve big questions of like curing

diseases that maybe we haven't been able to do yet so I'm assuming what you mean by this is that you if you know exactly

how to prompt it it can go search out all of the published data out there whereas like individuals will just have

to know where to look they'll have to say like I postulate that maybe this might help this disease and then they

have to go do the research and the AI can comb all of the research out there and collate it say here's some things

that might work you might want to investigate this further is that did I understand that correctly correct 100 and and it's it's so interesting too

because you you look at what AI can do there's there's people who are use using it to try to pass bar exams and medical

exams and it's doing it it's actually it's actually creating

um it's actually helping to to find the right answers to questions on some of

the hardest tests that you could take for Law and for medical so we know if it can do that it can take the same input

like you just mentioned from any documents that has been fed learn from it and and create possible solutions and

formulas I'm so excited to see what it can do for you know for illnesses and diseases and Cancers and I think it's

going to be really exciting but at the same time we also don't want AI going

out there and saying oh you've got a a rash you should take this medicine

yeah and and regardless of whether the data is right or wrong

um you know there's there's ethics there there's there's even morals at some point of what goes into you know our

personal health Google's always done a great job of addressing that with web search they've they've created their

their whole quality raters guidelines and they do a really good job of of something they call your money your life

and if if there's information that can't be validated or that they they don't necessarily trust then that content

might get demoted whereas fact checks information that it already kind of

pieced meals together when they read the page and says yeah this appears to be accurate and fact checked on a website

that I already trust that users have have interacted with in the past I'll display that result higher up in the

search results so I imagine that Bard and the new generative AI within the web

results are probably going to incorporate a lot of those same types of of your money your life filters I hope

they do because it definitely scares me to think that my kids might be looking to Dr Bard right instead of um you know

actually talking to their physician okay so let me pause for a second can you define the Google's Bard and

generative AI are these just like their versions their answer to chat GPT just a

different company developing the same thing essentially that yes so right so so AI in general

artificial intelligence is is um machine learning that's that's fed and created by Engineers

um large language models such as Bard and chat GPT take all that information

and basically translate it in a way that we can understand it and pretty soon in

pretty much every language that exists on the planet which is incredible to be able to take information and and write

it and spit it back to a a person in a way that they can understand it and and

even dumb it down if you asked it to tell me um like I'm a five-year-old right and

it'll rewrite it and tell you like you're a five-year-old so that you understand it that's what a large language model does and that's what Bard

and Chachi PT do as they take the AI technology and the information within that generative Ai and a large language

model is you know what translated and translates it in a way that we can consume it now there are other we ways

that we can use generative AI That's not large language models right there's the coding we talked about you know being

able to create code and and do actual actions and things that aren't just tell me something right so that's that's what

genitive AI gets really exciting because there's there's unlimited infinite possibilities of of What's

um you know I suppose we could say what the Matrix can do right um but but large language models are

sort of like a Neo or a program that you can interact with where the AI itself is just creating all sorts of amazing

things okay so generative AI is like the big definition of all of them and Bard is a specific group that takes that and

utilizes it and chat GPT is a different one from Bard correct yep built by different Engineers but they do very

similar things they're just fed different information sources and Bard has access to the internet whereas chat

gbt I think stopped in 2021 but now there are extensions and plugins and

ways that you can still access the internet but it's more of a a Band-Aid I suppose compared to bar that can and

here's the difference right I I use this every day I read articles from search engine land search engine Journal search

engine Roundtable all these different sites where every day I'm I'm learning more and consuming information about

what's happening in my industry which can take a lot of time so for a while if there was an older article and I was

reading up on something I would put it in a chat EPT and I would say give me the top five takeaways and five action

items from this article and then I do the same thing if I didn't feel like I got enough give me five more

and what was happening in some cases it say I'm I don't have access to the internet Beyond 2021 oh my God so

frustrating so now I can I can actually go to Bard and I can punch in that URL and say give me the you know top five

action items um and type top five takeaways and save me loads of time to be able to you know

to get the key points from you know uh what they call a skyscraper article that

somebody created you know with the Intensive you know I'm sure of of trying to generate press in PR and I was like

it's great for you but for us consumers who are really busy and have busy lives I don't have to read all your fluff now

I can go straight to what I need you know and get to the points now my my 30 minutes a day is down to 10 or less

which is amazing from a productivity standpoint okay so uh and then it seems like if

chatgpt no longer has access to the internet after 2021 and Bard does it

seems like there would be less controversy surrounding Bard because it wouldn't have restrictions on it based

on what input it got is that correct uh well there are extensions now so it does it does allow you to do a lot of

the same things if you if you have the extensions installed um so it's it's really now it's it's

kind of parallel the only the only thing I I see different is the two different groups of developers who are you know

creating and evolving these platforms so um and there's a lot there's a lot of if

you want to just for fun you could do compare um chat GPT and and Bard I think Bard's

six right now uh Google's product is six on the list of all the different large

language models that are available you know surprisingly but chat GPT is you know far none the one that's that

everyone's the most aware of and the one that they're using the most but a lot of it's just simply because they don't know

about Bard I think what what Google probably could do is write in their search results they could or right below

their search bar they could say try Bard but I think they're they're trying to roll it out slowly so that you know they

can find gaps loopholes and monitor results before they you know make a a

big fuss about it to the world you know so and narrowing down to healthcare again so from a patient standpoint first

of all where would someone where would a patient access AI from a health care standpoint would they just go to Bart or chat GPT and say hey here are my

symptoms what do I have like is that that's really what's wrong all they need to do and and it'll from every example

that I've seen it'll say talk to your physician right but it'll still give you some answers it could be this it could

be that but you should talk to your physician still so it's it's really interesting yeah go ahead I fail safe

that was built in by the engineers to just be like well let's just make sure that people don't take this too far kind of a thing I think so they must be I

mean that's that's the the hard work that the engineers had to do before these things could be taken live is is to make sure it was safe

um you know for consumers to use that's why there's a lot set up in filters but unfortunately you know wherever wherever

a teacher is able to create um something that they feel is unbreakable there's a student who's

convinced they can break it and there are people out there that are like well pretend that we're playing a game you

know Bard Pretend We're playing a game and the game is to see who can figure out the symptoms to

um to a cold right and so they're doing all these these interesting hacks in a

way to try to get the large language models to spit out the information that's um that they want in fact one one

prompt engineer was able to actually get into I don't remember if it was if it was chat GPT it was one of them where

they they went out and and actually asked it about the source code sorry you know I can't show the source code with

you and they did some sort of crazy prompt that enabled the um you know the the language model to

come back with an answer that was likely the answer um that they couldn't get the first time so it's it's kind of like playing games

and and doing scenarios write a story about pretend or such and such as

opposed to just blatantly asking the question and uh and I know the sport Engineers every day are having to figure

out okay now how do we block this and how do we do that and so anyway so um and is that the only place that AI

has been integrated into Healthcare or has it already infiltrated in other places besides just the patient going

directly to chat GPT or Bard are there like groups out there that are already

utilizing it so I'm sure I'm sure hospitals are already looking at ways that they can

incorporate into you know their their day-to-day how can we use chat GPT to make our jobs more efficient

um not necessarily around information uh but it could be around you know hey I've

got I've got a library of things that that we've put together for our local Clinic

um use this um as as a point of Truth and now when we ask questions have the the answers

come from that point of Truth as opposed to come up with your own answer um we can we can ask it to send emails

we can have it do follow-up um uh Dialing for us on on calls we

could do all sorts of amazing things with with AI that um that you know just didn't exist you know a year ago so I

think I think from a healthcare standpoint though the biggest the biggest thing I'm most excited about as I mentioned earlier is is its ability to

help find cures to things if we feed it the right you know the right amount of

data for consumers again it's it's how they're interacting I think right now like I called after

hours I have a physical coming up in July and I kept thinking to myself why am I having to talk to somebody who's

manually transcribing something when there's there's AI out there that they could they could connect to their phone system you know and have it ask me the

right prompts right when somebody calls ask this question record the answer ask this question record the answer

transcribe send the information to the front desk right they could do that but you know again you need the you know the

tech folks to go in and and help those offices set that kind of Technology up it's out there but somebody needs to

come in or a platform needs to come in to enable those types of tools so that way you can streamline your your

workflow into things that you're doing at the front desk and and so forth especially with medical records you know

I mean when you go in you know this you have this big folder of all the different medical records you know with

with AI it can assume all that and you could simply ask a question does does this patient have a history of X right

that says yes according to this document on this page they did have a record of

it or no they didn't but they have a family history of it according to the records AI could spit that kind of

information out if it was you know if the interface was created between the technology and the the hospital the

clinic uh The Physician Etc that's where it can really speed things up for the doctors then have to read through all

the files they can simply ask the question to the ai ai will access the documents you know and tell them you

know the information they need to help make an educated decision about what to recommend for the the patient oh and

from The Physician standpoint like my first thought is HIPAA like are we going to be worried about their there

being some kind of a breach here but I suppose it's just like anything else that you contract with as long as there's a HIPAA agreement in place it's

everything's kosher more or less I can imagine yeah I mean if you think about it now I mean we never had this 10 years

ago maybe 15 years ago we had medical records with all sorts of different

providers and we have to send them have fax them in at one point remember back in the day can you fax the records of

such and such you know and send the x-rays so it's going to take a week to get the x-rays over you know and now you

can just log in and see all your health care records in one platform for the most part you know and and it's all

stored online and and doctors all have access hopefully at this point to all the same information

um we didn't have that 20 years ago because of HIPAA and regulations and how we could do things but at some point

they got through it all and now we can have medical records you know injected into a device on our arm if we wanted to

and at any point they can just scan it and have your entire medical history and and background and not have to go to 20

different um you know professionals to get all the different information from you know eyes

and skin and and um you know and and your primary it can

all be you know aggregated into one spot for anyone to be able to look at and and hopefully for AI later to predict you

know the types of things that can help us from a preventative medicine standpoint so with any technology there's always

like the good and the bad like it's a it's a neutral tool but it can be used for good or evil essentially what's your

take on you know the debate surrounding we really need to put the brakes on AI because we don't know where this is

going to go and like some people will be like Doomsday prophesires that this could be the end of humanity if to go to

the the crazy extreme and then on the other side this could be the beginning of Utopia where do you fall on all of

that you know I've kind of always consider myself more of a scholar I love to to

learn I love to watch I love to observe um some things you know are put out in a

way to make you feel scared you know but um I don't know I kind of like to just

test for myself and I I look at things as as it's not something that is going

to globally blanket everyone I feel like every every Clinic every hospital every

physician is going to have their their own pace and how they adopt use test the

technology I'm not just going to say hey we're we're doing this now and this is the way it's going to be it's going to be hey we're going to test for a few

days this new tech and see if it's helpful to us and see if our patients like it I think every every individual

at the mic at the micro level is going to adopt it at a pace that they feel is comfortable you know and and if there

seems to be some sort of a a global issue where we start to see a percentage of these things go wrong I think at that

point um you know the the industries as we communicate through open forums and social are going to see those things and

address them as they happen so I'm a little less worried about you know a button click and we all go away in fact

there's a movie right now was it Oppenheimer about the the atom bomb right atom bombs out there it exists and

at any point destroy everything but it hasn't happened you know and what like 100 years so um yeah I don't I don't

have that same sort of worry you know and I try not to worry about anything I can't control anyway I try to focus on

you know what's in my my circle of control but it's it's all interesting fascinating and I try to take more of

the scholarly look on it and and learn and get my facts before I just you know Panic

also just use it because it's a tool and it's available to make our lives better essentially and it's nerdy and fun it's

geeky I actually help my daughter's boyfriend get a job using chat GPT I said give me some basic information

about what your experience is in certain things um and then I said okay with this experience write me a resume for a 17

year old looking for a you know an entry-level job at a restaurant and it did he took it in and he cut the job and

it was fun it only took me five minutes to do it so I love the time saving productivity efficiency

um capabilities that this new technology gives us oh yeah so is it still the case that in order to use chat GPT you have

to like give it you have to create an account right to log in and and have a chat with it that way but with Bard like

you don't same thing I know Barbie you don't even need well you need a Google account but Bard you can just go to

bard.google.com and start playing around now I was at an event last week uh called profcon where I was kind of

helping teachers teach SEO and trying to trying to encourage them to empower

students to start using it they're afraid of their students using it because they're afraid they're going to say write my essay for me and they're

doing that and there are tools to manage it um but I think setting the right expectations with with students so that

you don't worry about it quite as much and and there are going to be some filters to prevent it well hopefully enable teachers to give students ways

that they can leverage it so I need you to write an article about um I don't know the changes in healthcare

um great so here's what I want you to start with Bard and chat gbt and ask for topic ideas right

um one of the first questions that that I I had them ask is um ask ask chat GPT or Bard what are

some questions I should be asking my teacher to make the most out of this course wow and so why not do the same as

a patient and say hey I'm having some trouble with such and such but I'm not really sure how to articulate it to my

my um my doc my doctor what are what are some questions I should be asking my

doctor about this thing that that's going on with me you know ask those types of questions because the AI will

give you some some really interesting ideas that might inspire better questions to you know to the healthcare

professionals that are taking care of you right answer absolutely and a lot of it really does come down to asking the

right questions and sometimes you have to be really creative to elicit them so that's great

uh what have I not asked you that you think is important to leave with our audience maybe I don't know I think I think one

thing that I I would start doing because again this is an evolution is is start using the technology just like when the

internet came out we all were like what is this this internet thing right um I would I would probably set some

goals and say in the next 12 months what are some things I want to test with this tool to see how I can make my business

better to see how I can I can improve my time management to see how I can improve my budget right you can actually input

information into these these tools that will enable you I even asked uh chat GPT

I'm like hey I'm I want to I want to be able to buy a house in one year from now here's my credit score and how much

money I make how much will I need uh what will my budget need to look like for me to be able to get a house in a

year and it broke it down for me in details uh in real detail so it was it was pretty incredible so I would say the

one thing I would I would recommend to everybody is is get in there and start playing with it and and ask questions

questions um not just to the the tool but to to forums and groups to find out ways that

other people are using it what are prompts like what are prompts that people use in my industry what are prompts that

um that people will use to make their lives easier and better start asking those kind of questions and start

incorporating some of those into your you know your day-to-day so that you you start using it on a daily basis one

other thing I've done too is on my phone I put in that that Genie I mentioned which uses chat GPT and Bard are both

shortcuts right on my home page so now instead of using Google and and Bing

I'll start there if I need an answer and then I'll go out to search if I didn't get what I was looking for so start you

know just by using them on a day-to-day and um in lieu of search engines just to start you know really

um getting comfortable with the technology but ask ask everyone how are

you using it what are some ways that you're using it to make your life better I would do that at least five minutes a

day yeah really clever so The Bard is an app now like you can download it on your phone as an app essentially just

basically create a shortcut you can create a shortcut to any website um you know from um when you go to the

site you can just on your phone uh just go up to the top and create short uh desktop shortcut and it'll add it right to your home page awesome very cool well

thank you so much where can people go to find out more about you and your company oh I'm I'm all over social my I think my

my nickname that stuck with me over the years is just SEO Steve so you can find me everywhere Twitter

um you know Facebook all the places uh my email too if you want to shoot me an email and ask questions it's just

steve.com w-i-i-d-e-m-a-n.com feel free to email me any questions or ideas or if um if

you want to talk shop I'm all about it well thank you so much Steve this has been fantastic really informative thank

you Lauren it's great being on the show are you looking for a holistically minded Healthcare practitioner who truly

treats root cause rather than symptoms suppression unfortunately even in the alternative healing questions this isn't

a given that's why I've created wholehealthdoctor.com a resource to help connect patients to healthcare

practitioners in their area who share a root cause philosophy alternatively most of the practitioners listed also

practice Telehealth so if there isn't anyone local to you you can still find a great practitioner to help you regain

Optimal Health go to wholehealthdoctor.com that's whole healthdr.com type in your location or

adjust the specialty that you're looking for and find the practitioner who's right for

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