Holistic Counseling: Dr Moshe Daniel Block

welcome back to another episode of christian natural health today i am very excited to have dr moshe daniel block he

is the author of the revolution of naturopathic medicine remaining true to our philosophy a book about the

philosophy and practice of naturopathic medicine and holistic counseling introducing the vise dialogue a book

about a breakthrough healing method uniting the world of mind body medicine and psychology he graduated from the

canadian college of naturopathic medicine in ontario canada in 2000 dr block then went on to

complete the homeopathic master clinician course with luis klein in 2003. he now focuses his practice doing

one-on-one physician heal by self and mentoring appointments with nds and students enrolled in his mind body

medicine certification program called holistic counseling he continues to specialize in autoimmune illness and

myasthenia gravis a disease he was personally diagnosed as having and from which he has healed himself

welcome dr block thank you so much for joining us thank you dr deville it's a pleasure it's really fun to be on

on your you call it a show is it a show no podcast yeah take your pick

i love it i love how because you know mainstream media has so dropped the ball

um reporting what's really going on accurately if i may say

i love how people like yourself and myself as well and lots of just like grassroots people have popped up

bringing their own news and their own shows and their it's a really interesting age that we're in you know i

know it definitely is so tell us a little bit about

your holistic counseling practice so that's what your book is mostly about right so the v's dialogue is kind of

like a elevator speech overview of what it is elevator speech i've never been good at elevator speeches i you know

like you wanna you wanna get someone's attention in the first 30 seconds and i that's too much pressure for me anyway

so my my um account of host counseling is it's it's a method

of asking patients questions to get them reflect and it's based on the idea that the

truth resides within the patient you know the whole idea in naturopathic medicine we have that the healing power

of nature works in the patient well the same thing applies for holistic counseling is that the truth resides in

them they know what's right for them they know the truth and that the practitioner is is there to

ask the questions to get them to reflect deeper and deeper until they get

actually open up the vaulted sealed chamber of the subconscious

and they start to see the light of what is residing in the subconscious that is governing

the um their illness or their suffering it could be mental emotional it could be

physical and the the idea is that you know it's it's

a true holistic uh medicine in the sense that the idea is that when the physical body is sick it

is reflecting what is going on in the mental emotional field it's a passive

observer to what's going on lindlar said that the cells do not reason upon

what is true or not true from what's being conveyed by the mind and the emotions they just they just take on

that energy and they reflect it right um and so illnesses as a result and this is

all still part of my elevator speech by the way long elevator ride

yeah yeah yeah it's a lot we're we're on we're in new york somewhere i'm sure it's new york city so um

the mind body the philosophy of holism is is is that it's that

who we who we truly are is is is this i am this consciousness you could

call it a divine self and the

the mind when it starts to believe things that are not in harmony with the true self it creates a new reality

around it around which suffering can begin oh yeah and around which

illness begins as well physical mental and emotional basically so how would you

contrast that with like traditional talk therapy for example what's the main difference

well the main difference is so as far as i understand what traditional

talk therapy is is a lot of the the information comes from the practitioner

and the patient or the client is listening and absorbing this information

as if that is what will help so it that which is going to help is from the

yeah it was sorry it's like directed from the therapy it's directed from the outside from the practitioner and it's

therefore kind of like allopathic in nature that it it suddenly

in this on at the subconscious level feeds the idea i don't know what's wrong with me you know what's

wrong with me tell me what's wrong with me okay i'm gonna do that because you said so right uh-huh so in holistic

counseling if the patient doesn't get it the practitioner

doesn't give it it doesn't there are there are advanced techniques

which i teach in the advanced course so there's a beginner course a foundation course where i teach the the basic

technique and the philosophy behind it which i'll i'll get to in a moment

and after that first weekend it's three days well two and a half days a practitioner can go and already use that in their

practice they can already start to do it but then as they work they start to see oh my i have some issues in this kind of

situation or that kind of situation this is a very challenging case what do i do the advanced course addresses that and

really brings forward some subtleties that are too much for a

beginner in the technique to to absorb all at once so we we introduced a little bit

actually a lot in the beginning but then more so one of the one of the ideas it's not it's it's kind of yin yang balancing

so the the yin is that the truth exists within all of us and not to give it to

somebody not to push it right and believe me when we start doing this it's very hard for the practitioner not

to be the one that gives right right our ego wants our ego wants to give

wants to be the one to help wants to do it so there's part of the training is in also transforming the ego so that we can

allow the divine and the healing power of nature through us to work with the person yeah absolutely

yeah and then yeah yeah oh yeah i just wanted to tie up that thought what was i saying i was

talking about um uh the healing power of nature oh

yeah yeah so letting go of the ego is is is essential and and as we do that then we can bring

in a little bit of the yang which is very important because sometimes patients are very stuck and we have to

use a little bit of that that practitioner led

awareness um and you know i once taught an osteopath she was very wise uh she said that

that's just like an osteopathy you you allow the vital force the body to guide you

through the trauma and then maybe at the very end you just go and you pop it into place

so it's like what the practitioner does right when the person is right there poised there is some practitioner-led

uh information that we can offer um once you are okay with not giving it

but if you need to give it then if you give it it's your ego that's giving it and then you have this dynamic where the

patient is like deferring to you and then the whole holistic counseling thing

goes in the garbage right right right yeah you're talking about the yin and yang because this sounds very eastern in

general the way that you're you're describing how there's not an aggressive approach from the the

actual practitioner and something that struck me as i was reading through your book and like some of the ways that you

describe the question so being a christian from my perspective

i've done this with the holy spirit before where i've kind of been in that place of being kind of quiet and having

questions pop up and they were very much the questions that you described the what else what else what else so that

you can get down to the that final i am statement so that you identify where is

the lie that you're believing so that it can be released and so that it can be rewritten it was beautiful the way you

described that and you brought in all of these different philosophies of ways to look at that and describe that same

process yeah thank you that was such a great synthesis and a great account i love that you know christianity

is is one path i i mean sometimes christians can be a

little bit this is the only path you know and i think we all do that in our religious approaches but

anyway that that's an aside but it's it's one beautiful path which is very universal in its essence and yeshua

christ em embodied the i am in its purest form and was a total manifestation of god on

here so the christianity and the yogic and the taoists and the buddhists and ultimately

that this is what jim dr jim sensei was was fond of saying the truth is the

truth is the truth and i i do believe that 100 absolutely yeah and i i mean the way

that i look at that for from my little spin is all truth is god's truth if there's truth out there he made it

regardless of what what what it's being called yes real if it's reflecting

reality it's from him absolutely i love that i totally support that fully fully fully and this

philosophy of the i am it's very simple the idea is that who we truly are beyond

our identity beyond our gender our skin color who our name

uh our age is pure consciousness that's our true nature it's the the only thing

which is permanent about us the consciousness doesn't end

it when we when we're awake we're consciously awake when we're asleep that conscious self and the body is snoring

away on the bed but we're dreaming or if we're not dreaming we're in deep sleep and the consciousness resides in

that deep blissful uh state which is blank and very rejuvenating

but consciousness is the basis of the philosophy of holistic counseling of the visa dialogue

and it is actually the magic and i think it's the magic because it's it's god it's it's the i am yeah

it's the magic that helps people at a very tight very difficult situations

when they're suffering they feel trapped they're in a situation in their life that they lit they literally can't get

out of and i believe that god as the great orchestrator

puts people in the exact situation that they need to force them to face their

karma if you allow me to use that word which is where they're stuck in their evolutionary path

that these things that are bad the pain the suffering that come to us it's a pressure cooker that squeezes us into

making the choice and coming out of the karma to evolve

down the road that's not the best way to describe it but to return to who we are that's

basically it right right right yeah so yeah so the i am if if a person

i've noticed this when i'm working with people if a person is um so stuck and so

suffering the only thing that allows them out is to recognize that they are not

that thing that they believe themselves to be exactly exactly yeah that totally

makes sense so and you're the fact that you're kind of focused on helping the physician to heal

themselves how does that translate into being able to help others why is that so important to you oh i love this question

this is like uh this is like a red rose question here you hear you get a red rose

so it is remarkable at how deeply wounded

naturopaths are and let's not fault them they're humans

we're human we're all wounded the thing is if we don't address that if

we don't look at it if we don't attempt to understand ourselves better then it all dwells in the subconscious and in

the subconscious there are many like keep safes and locks that a person

does not want to go to and if they're like if they present themselves like energetically to their

patient and they're kind of like oh no i don't go there in my anger and my sadness and my whatever the pain there's

no way that the person is gonna feel comfortable enough to adequately or properly open up their vulnerability to

someone who's going oh no i don't go there myself sure yeah makes sense also what's kind of very interesting is

that where a practitioner quote unquote fails or struggles in the visa dialogue that's

the dialogue of holistic counseling they um it's where they are

blocked in their own i am it's it never fails so a person can be very intellectually

um aware of the questions to ask and what to do and what to do but they will

invariably start to pull control to themselves around their own

issues and then the they'll be stuck at that place where

they're stuck in the dialogue right isn't it's amazing so that's why physician heal myself

is absolutely uh essential yeah you know and i give a shout out to

dr charlie cropley who is another naturopathic doctor who does focus a lot

on that and the importance of that and i i salute him for that as well yeah

absolutely so it's almost like if the physician has a pair of blinders on because they don't want to go into

their own issue they're incapable of seeing it in someone else is that similar to what you're saying

yes exactly or or what about imagine this they themselves

have been wounded we're again we're all wounded right it's the nature of this world to wound us and

that is intentional and this is what we're here for on the planet is to to learn who we're not through woundedness

so then we could bring ourselves back and then that return is like the poor raw that i think bumps the universal

creation into the next level yeah okay okay so um

yeah so if they're wounded imagine this a person is wounded and they're like

don't want to go there can't go there when i start to feel the wound if i get triggered i'm going to go exercise i'm

going to watch tv i'm going to eat yeah so then yeah they're deflecting so

in comes wounded patient when the patient sits down you start talking oh oh

oh their pain is coming up don't want to go there that's the practitioner saying it sure

so the practitioner has to be comfortable in the pressure pain

of of the wound if they're comfortable in their own wound they can be comfortable with the

patient's home sure yeah that makes sense even if that wound isn't fully resolved yet you just are okay you you

accept it that's that's what needs to happen right and so then you're able to go down a road where that presents

itself and because if that's where the healing lies for the patient you have to be willing to walk that road in order

for that to happen that's right makes sense that makes sense yeah yeah yeah so you kind of alluded to this earlier

but um the idea that the mental emotional can influence the physical so

what's kind of your overall view of disease what makes people get sick what makes them get better

well it's this very thing okay there are exceptions to this but in general generally speaking

um what makes them sick is where they have chosen to believe something false about

themselves or about the reality of nature about god about love relationship whatever or anything

like that and and that belief is the strongest point

you could almost call it the weakest link in the chain that's where it will break but in this case it's the strongest point around which

dense heavy unhealthy energies will start to coalesce and because it's the strongest it will

occupy the attention the most through some manifestation of suffering

so that the person can look at that and resolve the the their ignorance

i use that in quotations but they are ignorant of some truth about their nature

okay so in a way it almost at least this reminds me of a blockage in chi from a

chinese medical standpoint where if there's a blockage then that's where all of the you know you'll have a

accumulation i guess stagnation or something like that that need that indicates that there's a problem here that needs to be resolved is that

similar exactly and then the three treasures of chinese medicine the shen governs the chi which governs the jing

the blood and but we tend to focus in naturopathic medicine at the second level not the

first level so we move the blocked energies we detoxify the body we get the

organs moving we vitalize with hydrotherapy we are mostly working at

the level of it's the second level so we're not just at the allopathic manifestation of

the disease and trying to eradicate the symptoms right but we're not going to the root cause of

it which is in the mind the shen governs the chi so the chi is blocked

it's because the the mind is blocking it interesting okay yeah actually going a

step beyond where acupuncture would so originating in the first place

interesting okay now now on that note just a quick little little ditty um i believe that there are some

masterful that can that can work with the shen point the back shoe points

their emotional points and stuff to help liberate the mind as well interesting and so that would be even

without the patient's conscious awareness or would they have to be on board with that well maybe they would be

like you know who knows but they might be going like so how's it with the wife or how is it with your child right you

know like and they're like dunk you know putting it in the back or there's other points too there's the tips of the

finger points that release a lot of energy and generally speaking though the vast

majority of acupuncture is at the vital level and it's not at the what

influences the vital level interesting interesting so we're talking about

acupuncture what other modalities do you use besides holistic counseling or do you use acupuncture do you use anything

else i love acupuncture when i when i studied naturopathic medicine we had a pretty decent acupuncture program i mean

like compared to like the like just acupuncture program probably not as developed which is true across the board

for a naturopathic program right it's only somewhere you can go yeah i love action picture i don't use

it um i i love and i do use pretty thoroughly is homeopathy

yeah homeopathy is a beautiful adjunctive um therapy medicine to

holistic counseling the two are like they're like perfect for each other

yeah because it's it is unfortunately the case that many people are very very very wounded

and to even taking a step with the mind to say no i don't want to believe that anymore it's just the emotion is so

overwhelming for them in the wound that they are not ready to

employ the use of their will which is just it doesn't have to be a strong will it could just be okay i'm

not going to do that anymore right so that homeopathy comes in and then could transform that energy and then

you'll see the difference from from appointment to appointment and how deep you could get in the dialogue so let's

say you get x deep next time you go y and then after you give the remedy you go y and then you

given the same or another rem you go you go down to z yeah to just push through those emotional

blockages i mean i i often will explain to patients that it's like when you get the right homeopathic remedy it opens

the door but it's still up to you whether you walk through it so yes you have that opportunity to move forward

and move deeper so yes and oddly enough this is just one of my ongoing theories

or observing observations of nature i've actually observed that the the contrary

is also true that the patient has to make some kind of opening in themselves

some kind of choice some kind of commitment and then the remedy is revealed oh interesting okay can you explain that

a little more what do you mean by that yeah so let's say a person is um doesn't stand up for themselves they never stand

up for themselves they don't have a voice they don't do anything to stand up for themselves and then one day they say

you stop that right now i've had enough of you crossing my boundaries first time they ever said

anything like that right because they initiated the movement towards healing

the remedy is presents itself okay so all right um along those lines

question yeah someone if there's a well-chosen remedy that

fails to act do you feel like that's because the person hasn't opened the door for it yet

yeah it could definitely be and it could also it could also be that there's a different there's sorry there's a very

deep intention to want to die to want to be sick to want to keep

holding on to the illness and that intention hasn't moved and they're not aware of it

so no remedy could come in and make change there because the will has to be in line that

totally makes sense the will has to be in line and and of course there's the traditional homeopathic view of maya's

myasmatic blockage there too so the the patient has a myasm like uh

ancestral illness infectious disease which was suppressed through external means it got pushed into the genetic

code then the seed was passed on and then they have this shadow of the illness like if it was

syphilitic they don't have syphilis but they have the shadow that's the myasm is the shadow of the illness so it's almost

like epigenetics is that similar i i guess so yeah i suppose so yeah

funny i don't think i've ever thought to make that parallel but i could see that um and it's

yeah those are difficult to move because the patient was born with it the person was

born with it they've only ever known that way of feeling so the

because if you let's say you were a happy healthy little kid and then you got wounded and then you're sick well you remember something about the

happiness something that happened there you're yeah yeah so then you could say oh yeah i remember you have this this thing this

reference but a mayanism is difficult to counsel through because the person has only ever felt

that way let's say ashamed of themselves and you know the psychotic myasm could also be syphilitic

then they don't know the feeling of what it's like in this lifetime to not be ashamed

so it could be very hard for them to find that will to change because they don't know it they have no experience of

it so the remedy could really assist in that way yeah that would be really

hard because one of my favorite questions is when did this start when do you remember being totally fine

and then we move forward from that point because it's so much easier to go back and say okay something happened right there this is where our root issue

shifted but yeah if somebody can't go back to that it does make things way more challenging yeah and you have to

really pull out your your subtle yeah your subtle skills right like

fine how are you going to find the way because there's always a way there's always a choice always

it's just how deep do you have to go to see that choice here yeah yeah and the

answer is most of the time very very deep so one of the things with host

counseling is and this is why talk therapy doesn't work very well sorry

sorry sorry um not so well i'm not saying it

doesn't work at all but it doesn't work and deeply to move these root things it's because

the person is in their conscious mind all this stuff is going on in the subconscious

now the subconscious is a mysterious place but it's not inaccessible it just takes time

and because it's shrouded in darkness it takes patience and perseverance and

persistence you have to keep asking until the person goes

i'm doing that yeah yeah i am doing that i could see i'm doing that now they have

conscious awareness of the subconscious and that's what helps release the choice

or change the choice once it actually rises to the level where someone's aware of it and they can actually do something

yeah yeah exactly versus i don't know like this if you've ever heard somebody say it's

like oh you're depressed just get over it you know like just like happy thoughts right uh-huh

so thanks a lot you know like screw you but when you when you actually get down

to that root cause of the depression then you can get over it sure yeah

absolutely yeah you have your own amazing story of the

myasthenia gravis so yeah give us any information on how did how did you use

what you're talking about now to help you overcome that well awesome question so i had two bouts

with myasthenia gravis one was 20 it was in 1996. so how long ago was that

26 years ago gosh that's a long time 26 years ago i got very sick and i

actually went to the options institute in massachusetts barry neil kaufman and samaria kaufman's

beautiful healing center where they work with autistic kids their child was born autistic okay in the 70s

and there was an amazing movie done and a book written it's called sunrise the miracle can the miracle continues or

something like that they worked with him and they after two and a half years of just mirroring him

like the homeopathic parenting technique you might say he became he had a near genius iq totally functional amazing

people how cool amazing people yeah so barry kaufman barry neal kaufman developed a a

dialogue called the optiva dialogue and i had it done on me i was the patient i

was the receiver and a series of questions were asked me i was quite paralyzed at the time my

arms were extremely weak my legs my eyes double vision dysphagia

difficult swallowing so i was asked a series of questions i don't remember anything about the dialogue except the

last question which after which i had a spontaneous healing right there in this beautiful forest

nature i felt my vital energy returned my arms got strong and i went holy

smokes yeah i fell healed that was spontaneously healed and the question it was

what makes you think you need to be perfect because i must have said because i need

to be perfect what makes you think you need to be perfect i had never thought about that before it was never

uh something that i looked at before it was taken for granted that i had to be perfect yes yes yes absolutely

and i the this doesn't always happen but sometimes it does that in the question is the answer and the answer came to me

very clearly i don't need to be perfect holy i just never thought of it before

so i had this amazing healing and i did pretty well i'd say for about 20

years 20 years i was i don't want to say symptom free but maybe one or two or three percent of

the symptoms once in a while would come on if i was very stressed very tired

um i once fasted for like 12 days and i got a little weak muscularly and i was

like okay maybe i should eat again

so yeah um and then um

yeah and then i was pretty good until six years ago when i had a deeper quantum level deeper

experience of the illness i was much more sick um

you know i i had uh we we got my wife and i got pregnant was so not i didn't

get pregnant she got pregnant but we were gonna have a baby and i just decided i made this really

silly unwise choice which was obviously ripe for the addressing and

the idea was my life's over [Music] my devotion to uh enlightenment um to

evolving to god to what what whatever you call it self-realization was so

obsessive that i believed that because i was gonna have a child and have to have responsibility for an infant

that it was it that was it i was not gonna attain my most important desire it couldn't it couldn't be farther from

the truth like these i have two kids now and you know just to say like it's been

what has helped me evolve that is the thing that i needed and that's why it came

but i didn't think that then so i got very sick that idea that's it

my life's over really what i i had inception in myself you know that movie inception yes uh-huh i incepted myself

yeah and not a few months later i started to really get so sick and i

almost died so i literally said my life is over and then my life almost became over but there was a little a lot of

deep deep grappling with that idea and

the transformation from that healing has been deeper than the first time

and god willing i don't there's not a third round that's that's in god's hands but i'm really hoping that that's enough

so that's amazing so do you offer training to other practitioners in your

counseling method yes okay i do thank you that's like a dragon sticker question

you get a dragon sticker now um i do i i offer training it's the a program a full

it's a certification program it's a really beautiful container

that the person comes in they learn the first course and foundations then they

start practicing the dialogue i start working with them one-on-one with physician heal thyself stuff so we go

really really deep i help them with transformation with homeopathy as well

so they might have maybe three or four appointments and they're practicing and then uh

there's an in-between course they do online and then they do the advanced course a few months later the advanced course

after that we start doing mentoring and the mentoring is simply like let's say you're in the course you take my

course you would you would record yourself working with someone doing the visa dialogue and we watch it together

and i would uh make suggestions and could critique

offer suggestions and i always i do the the buddhist hand slap before i do it you know what the buddhist hand slap is

i don't know it's really interesting so they they um buddhist philosophies in particular

tibetan buddhists they have they they debate each other as all many different you know religious uh or religious

pathways they have debates about what is true what's not true and who said this who said that so before they argue with

each other that the person is presenting the argument slaps like that and that is to indicate to be forgiven for any karma that they

might engender through this discussion through this argument through this idea

so and and it's also asking for forgiveness you know if they do transgress in that

way it's very it's very beautiful interesting yeah and and i do that with the practitioner to say hey i know that

you are a manifestation of the i am you are a child of god in you resides this

purely uh innate intelligence that is straight from the divine

so don't let me telling you something don't defer to me

and take and and lose that center in yourself right but please allow me to

help you along the way right like yeah okay yeah so it's almost like a disclaimer at the

beginning of the discussion yeah that's right that's right i hereby will be do not hold me accountable for

anything that's about to happen what is so interesting is in initially the the dialogues will off often turn

into a physician heal by self dialogue because i say hey what what are you

doing here i see you're doing something you're really holding back what's going on what's going on behind the scene

there and they're like well i'm afraid that i might offend them if i ask them this difficult question what is that

fear of offending about is that something that you feel in your life oh yeah i'm afraid of offending everybody

okay we gotta do we gotta do a physician heal thyself moment here sure yeah right

that makes sense yeah okay so if anybody is interested in your

program where do they go oh okay sweet so they they go to holistic without a w okay h o l i s t i

c dash counseling with 1l okay

dot ca awesome okay and i have a new program that will be starting in the fall i

haven't updated the website because we're still underway in the second one but i'll be updating it with the with the the dates

um i believe the first is the end of october and then the advance will be in march

okay and i will be offering it in beautiful east tennessee oh very nice

gorgeous it's really gorgeous in the mountains and uh the energy is very conducive here for it

uh yeah so that's that's the program that's where that's where i'm training people thank you for that so i will link

in the show notes to that url for anybody who wants to find it is there anything i have not asked you that you

want to make sure that you leave with our audience um anything you have not asked me

well i'm sure there's lots of things but this is i'm i feel pretty i feel pretty whole

like nothing popped into my mind i feel very grateful to have had this

beautiful discussion with you deep to naturopaths you know

walking down the road of philosophy and and recognizing very important things that are

you know not the norm within this the school within the other colleges these

days true yeah and i have to say i really appreciate you know you're you're actively an

obviously christian you you put your christian foot forward i i salute you

for that i honor you for that because again there's been this subtle

judgment around being openly spiritual and and like and

and following a spiritual religious path because of

the subtle judgment of the the forces of opposition if i may

um to to ridicule the divine to ridicule to

belittle it to to make it seem like there's no place in that in science

and that kind of that kind of goes back there's a history of that where the you know the church split from the

science from science and doesn't have to be that way right

absolutely right science emanates from that which is the divine and the church

is representative of that which is divine so it doesn't have to be a split yeah yeah

and i think we we shoot ourselves in the foot when we try to separate the two you know yeah so back to the idea of all

truth is god's truth so scientific truth if it's science it's from him just like all everything else we're talking about

amen absolutely absolutely well thank you so much for all your time

and wisdom dr block i so appreciate it it's my pleasure my honor thank you to

dr deville's my pleasure thank you